I've been thinking. Read no further if you want to be amused.
BORING DATA:
Some people are awaiting trial for the January 6th insurrection. They hoped to overturn an election Biden won by 7,052,770 votes out of over 158 million cast. Because of the Great American Crank Factor, 2.5 million people threw their votes away on non-viable candidates. The remaining 155,485,078 voted for either Biden or Trump. Biden's 4.5% victory margin is the largest since 2000.
If you're hung up on the wildly unfair Electoral College, Biden got 306 EC votes and Trump got 232.
MY ACTUAL THOUGHTS:
MY ACTUAL THOUGHTS:
How do we punish insurrectionists? Some want punishment to be swift, certain, and severe. Severe because the assumption is aggressive punishment deters criminal acts. This brings to mind Jean Valjean's long prison sentence for stealing bread to feed his sister's starving children.
Others want swift, certain, and fair punishment. In other words, the punishment should fit the crime. How would Jean Valjean have been punished in this context?
Sedition is a serious, folks. Finding a punishment to fit the crime for insurrectionist leaders is a no-brainer. There was no Jean Valjean in that group. These folks gleefully committed a crime that threatened our republic. If successful, the entire world would have suffered.
But what about the gullible day trippers who participated? I'm talking about the people in D.C. that day for the Trump rally. They listened to their supreme leader tell them to go and raise hell and they joined in. Trump wound them up like a yoyo and hurled their strings toward the U.S. Capitol. Still, being part of a violent mob demands a penalty. That's just the way it is. You know, "justice" and all that implies.
Others want swift, certain, and fair punishment. In other words, the punishment should fit the crime. How would Jean Valjean have been punished in this context?
Sedition is a serious, folks. Finding a punishment to fit the crime for insurrectionist leaders is a no-brainer. There was no Jean Valjean in that group. These folks gleefully committed a crime that threatened our republic. If successful, the entire world would have suffered.
But what about the gullible day trippers who participated? I'm talking about the people in D.C. that day for the Trump rally. They listened to their supreme leader tell them to go and raise hell and they joined in. Trump wound them up like a yoyo and hurled their strings toward the U.S. Capitol. Still, being part of a violent mob demands a penalty. That's just the way it is. You know, "justice" and all that implies.
I say all this with full knowledge that Trump escaped punishment for his role that day. Maybe "justice" is only blind when it comes to the wealthy and powerful?
FINALLY, MY QUESTION:
What's a fair and effective punishment for the gullible day trippers?
FINALLY, MY QUESTION:
What's a fair and effective punishment for the gullible day trippers?
photo from https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/12/us/capitol-mob-timeline.html
Of course I believe that each person charged should be judges individually according to the severity of the charges. I also believe that the sentences for those found guilty should be fair. Each and every person who illegally entered that building knew they were breaking the law and some gloried in the act. All Americans had to pay to have repairs and clean-up done afterward. That is not fair either.
ReplyDeleteThey really did seem to glory in the act.
Deletewell I want them to fry. as for mango mussolini, he will be in jail soon enough.
ReplyDeleteI hear ya.
DeleteThe ones who entered the Capitol Building, roamed the halls, threatened elected senators and congress people should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The ones who stood in the streets, did not enter the building, protesting their ill-conceived idea of stolen elections should be humiliated for life and tattooed with the letter "T" on their foreheads. Just kidding, but still I like the idea.
ReplyDeleteI think you might be on to something there.
DeleteDay tripper sedition? It boils down to right or wrong. Is it right or wrong to break into a building, smashing glass with metal objects. Sorry, I don't buy day tripping as an excuse, here. Full extend of the law...
ReplyDeleteI hear you. I do wish Trump would have been held accountable as well. His actions were criminal on an exalted scale. I'm thinking of the day trippers because of an article about the first one sentenced.
DeleteI'm not sure morons should be punished as hard as evil perpetrators. When does one size ever fit all? However, people make decisions, and these people made a decision. Not thinking critically simply isn't a valid defense. There must be consequences.
I simply don't know what to think about this: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2021/06/23/capitol-riot-sees-1st-sentence-given-indianas-anna-morgan-lloyd/5309991001/
DeleteAs I understand it, and when last recorded, about 500 people who took part in the Capitol riot have so far been identfied and charged with different offences. I may be wrong but I think this process is ongoing. Whatever, it seems justice is happening and that is what we should hope for and expect.
ReplyDeleteWhat isn't happening is greater media coverage of these trials (assuming some have already happened). Certainly this seems to be the case from my side of the Atlantic. And here we reach a difficulty regarding the definition of "punishment". Is punishment intended as a deterrrent or merely a means whereby society inflicts unpleasantness on proven criminals? Thus providing comfort to those who haven't committed crimes? It's an argument that has run and run.
The fact is the results of punishment have changed. Once it was limited to statements within the law. Now the "exposure" (in the newspapers and on TV) of experiencing a trial is sometimes greater punishment than the ultimate fine and/or period of incarceration. Is this happening with regard to the rioters? You tell me.
Good point. I believe punishment is first and foremost a means to hold people accountable for their crimes. I remember a sociology class I took about 50 years ago, when we studied this very issue. The idea was that any crime is a crime against the larger community, and there must be consequences for those actions. But is it a deterrent, or is it punishment? Two different things. Both important to the public ("of the people, of the state, common, or ordinary.").
DeleteThe trials are beginning. They will be far reaching and quite fascinating for political junkies like myself. To date, only one of the over 500 people has been sentenced (just three years probation, $500 fine, and 40 hours of community service). She was a "day tripper" and her story is what made me begin to wonder what an appropriate punishment is, and if one size fits all. And then one begins to wonder what role future rehabilitation plays.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2021/06/23/capitol-riot-sees-1st-sentence-given-indianas-anna-morgan-lloyd/5309991001/
Thanks for the link. The court case was worth reading in full. For one thing it stressed the point you raised about appropriate punishment. For another, the defendant pleaded guilty and offered evidence that suggested she was truly sorry for taking part in an event which turned out to be something she didn't anticipate. The sentence seemed right under the circumstances - like many others she simply seemed incapable of thinking things through.
DeleteThe more important cases will be of those who were actively destructive and who imagined they were taking part in The Gunfight at the OK Corral on the Earp side. When in fact they'd sided with the Clantons.
Re: Gunfight at the OK Corral analogy. Good one!
DeleteYour blog is filled with unique good articles! I was impressed how well you express your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteRegards,
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Thanks, Eva.
DeleteAs a Brit, I found the attempted insurrection at the Capitol Building quite astonishing. The lack of any effective security was also astonishing. The main objective must surely be to prevent such an outrageous attack on democracy from happening again.
ReplyDeleteLet's hope so.
DeleteI am glad they are being brought to court. I don't think it would be a "one size fits all" punishment as some were more violent and dangerous than others but all should have consequences (including their leader)!
ReplyDeleteEspecially their leader! I wonder if he'll ever be brought to justice?
DeleteA good question. I struggle with sending people to prison for simply not being very good critical thinkers and being easily misled by an overly bronzed charlatan. At the same time, I think SOME punishment is called for. For many people fines and/or community service would be enough. For some of the principal offenders -- like the guy photographed with his feet up on Nancy Pelosi's desk -- I think prison makes sense.
ReplyDeleteSounds about right to me, too.
Delete